Now, as for the official Scouting NY book…
Over the past two years, I’ve received countless emails from readers pushing me to do it. I’d certainly love to – but like the film industry, the world of publishing seemed like a well-guarded fortress, and I had no idea how to break in.
Then, last summer, inquiries from several publishers appeared in my inbox asking if I’d like to explore the possibility of writing a Scouting NY book – and I didn’t want to miss my chance. So I sat down, studied up on how to write a proper book inquiry and proposal, consulted with a few in-the-know friends, and fleshed out a few ideas of what I’d like a Scouting NY book to be.
Bottom line, it’d have to be a photobook. The whole damn site is built around telling a story with pictures, and to do anything other than that just wouldn’t be right. I didn’t want to write a text-heavy travel guide or a history book, I wanted to put together something that could be enjoyed just by literally opening to any page.
The first concept would simply be an extension of the website, focusing exclusively on New York. The second would be to open it up to a national, or even international level.
The third (and I really, really think this one would be a winner) would be to expand on my New York, You’ve Changed series, in which New York shooting locations are compared on a then-and-now, shot-by-shot basis to see how the city has changed – but go all out, covering movies from every decade, with interviews, history of a production, etc. And again, with an emphasis on being able to pick it up, flip to a random page, and immediately appreciate it.
Anyway, this email exchange represents pretty much all of my conversations with various editors and agents:
“Thanks for your e-mail back [with your proposal]. I think these are both great ideas. The only problem with photo books is that they can be expensive to produce and people are sometimes wary here of big, expensive, glossy coffee table books unless it has a name like Annie Leibovitz slapped on it.
I’m going to talk to my colleagues about a way we could get around that – maybe we do it in black and white with a photo on one page and a description of the spot you’ve scouted on the next…Also, do you have contacts in the film world (big-name people) that would be willing to contribute a blurb? That will help me gain traction here moving forward.
Let’s stay in touch – I think this could be big.
Ha, because the one thing Scouting NY has been missing is black and white photography, right?
Well, I wrote back to say that I absolutely wasn’t expecting a major glossy coffee table book. In fact, I’d be perfectly happy with a level of quality similar to the “Weird” line of books put out by Barnes & Noble (Weird NJ, Weird USA, etc.), which are published on the low end, but still get the point across perfectly at a $19.99 price tag.
She responds:
As I talk to my colleagues, the thing for us to figure out if we want to make a book out of this is what you could write about that isn’t already available for free on your blog. If people can get something online for free rather than buy a book, they will, with the exception of huge internet sensations like LOLCats.
If you think of anything that you could write about/photograph above and beyond the content already on your blog, please let me know. I’ll be thinking as well.
I passionately elaborate on all three of my ideas, providing numerous examples of content that has never hit my website.
She writes back:
Your blog is very compelling, but in the end, I do not see a big enough market nationwide for the NYC photo book.
[As for your then-and-now movie locations books idea], I think this is a great idea for a book, but, unfortunately, it’s very hard to sell any sort of film analysis book unless you’re basically Roger Ebert or someone very famous like that. I fear securing the rights for the then and now book would be very cost prohibitive for you. The author, not the publisher is responsible for securing and paying for permissions for the use of copyrighted work.
However, I would be interested in seeing a proposal for a memoir, if you wanted to reconsider. I know you said you didn’t think it would work but I think it’s a better possibility for us than this project. Let me know if you want to discuss that idea further.
…
And that’s pretty much how all of my book dealings have gone: we don’t want to deal with the hassle and risks of a photobook, but would you mind writing a memoir?
Now me writing a memoir based on a five year career is a bad idea. I simply couldn’t imagine generating 100,000+ words of amusing anecdotes and the trials and tribulations of scouting in New York.
Meanwhile, a fellow scout with YEARS more experience than me (who runs the very entertaining blog Scenes from an Unglamorous Life) has finished a manuscript about her life working in the movies, and has been having a hell of a time shopping it – and I KNOW her stories are better than mine. For example, this response from an editor after she tries to wow him with stories of having been harnessed to the roof of the Empire State Building and the Woolworth Building to take pictures:
“Well, have you smoked crack? Been a prostitute? Homeless? Had any kind of addictions to overcome? Disease? That’s what makes a memoir work. That’s what people want to read.”
…
Don’t get me wrong: I get it. TV shows cost money, advertisers want ratings, and it’s safer to go with the tried-and-true nutcase reality television model than try something new. Photobooks are expensive, I’m no LOLcats or Stuff White People Like, and it’d be safer to go with a somewhat amusing but ultimately forgettable memoir. But just because both ideas are risky doesn’t mean they wouldn’t work.
A few editors have suggested I self-publish. Hey, I’m all for it – but the price for print-on-demand full color photobooks is ridiculous. You’d be paying $50 for my book in paperback, which is silly. There’s no way the print-on-demand quality would live up to such a price. And without a designer or editor to help steer my ideas to the page, I’m afraid the whole thing would come off amateurish – again, not what I want you buying for $50.
That’s probably why I like doing Scouting NY so much: it’s just for fun. I’m certainly happy to field any offers to branch out, of course! But otherwise, I’ll just keep on doing it as I have been, and just be appreciative you guys care to read. I just wanted everyone to know I have made the effort!
-SCOUT
I would definitely read a Scouting NY book & watch a TV show! On another note, it might be cool to have some kind of reader submissions; cool places like those that you blog about, even some then-and-now movie posts. I’ve always been interested in compiling a list of major locations for some NYC movies (I have one already for “Reign Over Me”, though that movie is quite recent), but don’t have the interest/knowledge/attention span to regularly post them on a site of my own! Just a thought.
Anyways, still loving the site! Keep it up
I’d buy a Scouting NY picture book and I’d buy a NY you’ve changed picture book. The latter of which I’d consider as a gift for my movie fan friends.
My suggestion is don’t over think it, do something as simple as possible because you can always go into deep detail later. All I’d want is pictures, and short explanations and detail of the locations.
With something like this I think it’s best to go small and organic, book publishers are going to need a significant return before they’ll invest. There seems to be some good self publishing solutions out there, particularly aimed at photographers to show their work, but also print on demand solutions for authors. Perhaps get a run of hardbacks printed and take orders by PayPal.
Kind regards
Chris
Check out this link about famous authors who were rejected by publishers:
http://www.examiner.com/book-in-national/30-famous-authors-whose-works-were-rejected-repeatedly-and-sometimes-rudely-by-publishers
Nuff said. Keep looking for someone who will see the diamond that others don’t see.
A Scouting NY television show sounds like a fantastic idea. Maybe that’s something you could shop to NYC TV. It seems to be right up their alley. They’ve had at least one show – Secrets of New York – picked up for national distribution. It could be the perfect place for you to start.
As to the book, Kevin Walsh at Forgotten NY successfully did a book. Maybe you could check out his model. I would definitely buy a Scouting NY book. It would be fantastic.
Good luck!
If you’re open to the idea of self-publishing, why not go that route? Print on demand can be a really great option, too. I would definitely buy — in fact, when I read the title of this post I got excited and clicked through really fast to see if there was a link to buy.
By any chance did you know Ron Grant who also scouted for films? He passed away about 10-11 yrs ago.
I would buy the book, I love your website!!!!
Expanding the NY You’ve Changed into a glossy color photo book would be something I’d buy. If you did other movies that was exclusive to the book that would be something you’d be bringing to the table that would be worth it.
Publishing is called publishing for a reason. It’s a business and in this climate of zero risk taking, usually any business decision is either a no or let’s run this by the lawyers. This is why blogs have gotten popular. This is about the only blog I follow because of its quality and content. Printed books are becoming past technology quickly, just as land lines have become.
Keep up the good work and publish it here.
I think it would sell at $50, you have your niche market right here at this blog. We were recently featured in a book
( http://theartofsoapbook.blogspot.com/ )that is $35, full color & self published as you described, & has sold well over 100 copies already in under a month. Of course only do it if you wanna do it
As a person who works in publishing (but, alas, not the type of publishing that can help you) I suggest you keep looking for an agent or editor and don’t let this email exchange get you down. Shop it to agents/editors the way you want it done and see what happens.
The people in charge of the money are looking for a sure thing right now, but there are people who work in trade publishing who want desperately to work on something besides celebrity garbage. And your blog is excellent, you’re a strong writer, and you clearly love what you do. That will appeal to someone. It’s just going to take more time to get your work out there. I recommend sending it to editors or agents who are a little lower on the totem pole. You know, people who aren’t burned out or counting on their HUGE yearly bonus while their underlings eat canned meats for ever meal? Shop it to assistant/associate editors or agents who are just starting out. They are the ones who are looking to build a list. Good luck!
“If people can get something online for free rather than buy a book, they will, with the exception of huge internet sensations like LOLCats.”
This person is clueless. Don’t do business with 20th century dinosaurs. Plenty of people will buy a physical version of something they can get for free online.
Will enough people be willing to buy the type of book you have in mind? That I don’t know.
Craig Mod has a great post on self-publishing a book.
http://craigmod.com/journal/kickstartup/
I had a blog that, at least according to alexa.com, didn’t have nearly the reach of yours and I had a book published with relative ease by a major publishing house. Granted, it was political in nature and the timing was right… but still. There’s a chance that you just might not be talking to the right people.
If you like, let me know how to contact you other than posting in your comments and I’ll share my experience/contacts.
Forgotten New York got a book published. Maybe check with that publisher? Good thing about that book, is that one can use it as a guide book too, helping one to find unknown spots of the city. A paperback still works better than a website via iPhone, I believe. Scouting NY could try to do something in that direction, now focusing on the beauty and often overlooked details of many NY spots. These bits can be mixed with some interesting/hilarious stories from your field. True: a hardback oversized coffee table book is not the right format for this…
Like Sebastian, I suggest going a route similar to Forgotten NY. I love his web site and bought his book, which I also loved. It works great for the armchair historian/preservationist, and also great as an on-location guide.
“Well, have you smoked crack? Been a prostitute? Homeless? Had any kind of addictions to overcome? Disease? That’s what makes a memoir work. That’s what people want to read.”
Wow, that is why I DON’T read memoirs!
Geez, no kidding. I can’t imagine anything less likely to catch my attention or my dollars. How offensive!
I work for a publishing company, though I’m not an editor, and I think the concerns they address are valid (except the one about memoirs…insane). It is expensive to print a coffee table book and I could see why they would want to be cautious about it. No one wants to lose money on their books.
That said, the company I work for just published a full color glossy paperback book that retails for $15 so it seems like there are ways to publish affordable books that have color images. Also, most books that are based on blogs include a lot of original content, as well as some of the best content from the website, so that potential buyers will not be able to get it all for free online.
So in short, I’d keep trying! Maybe you just haven’t found the right publisher yet.
As someone in publishing I will tell you to definitely not self publish, you should really try to find a literary agent first, and then let them do all of this work for you. And, if you have any connections at all, use them, it will help cut through the traditions of ignoring everyone that doesn’t have a recognizable name.
Second, acquiring rights for copyrighted works can fall on the author and/or the publisher. I’ve had to acquire lyric and poem rights on many publications, not the author.
Keep your head up! It’s a tough process but I have no doubt you’ll find success.
Nick–I am a book editor and publishing strategist. I would love to talk about your book. How do I reach you directly?
I am not as far along as you in contacting agents and what not, but have been wanting to publish a photo book that I designed back in college in ’07. I’m a Graphic Designer who does photography for fun and it’s been great that way. But I have a bit of an identity crisis as I dream of being an author, photographer, photojournalist, web designer, graphic designer and work in a museum. That and I dream of living somewhere tropical like Key West and having a washer and dryer in my apartment too someday… So NYC and all of it’s publishing opportunities unfortunately won’t always be mine.
Anyway, let me know if you want to connect on the design aspect…
$50 is pricey, but not a terrible price for a beautiful coffee-table book. Especially for someone who loves NYC. Your latest Beekman pics alone are so worth publishing.
I’ve been writing a series on self-publishing books over at Scribophile.com you should check out…
Instead of writing memoirs, I suggest you write your impressions and feelings when visiting places. I’ve just read the post on 5, Beekman st and one can feel how you get involved in place’s history and architecture. It’s full of your emotions, this is what makes your blog so atractive! Besides, you discover places an ordinary mortal would never bother to get into. Go ahead, you’re young, enthusiastic, you have a good eye to recognize the value of buildings, explore it.
Another issue I think you could explore is the attention you have for details. This could turn out an interesting subject not for a coffe tabel book, but for every one who loves the town, mainly tourists. (Again, the dragons on 5 Beekman st.)
P.S.: I didn’t read all the comments, maybe some one has already given you this ideas. Go ahead and good luck.
If Leigh Haber, (above) has not already helped get this book on its way, I have some suggestions for you, including Powerhouse Books/Powerhouse Arena in Dumbo…they specialize in publishing photography and carry a great number of NY books in their store. Hit me up on facebook if you wanna hear some more ideas.
Morning i just stumbled your site from Google but got a wierd popup about dog hospitals which is obviously not related to your blog. Is this your advertising or do i have a spyware issue? Thanks.
I would DEFINITELY buy a nice quality color photobook based on the “New York, You’ve Changed” concept…
Why do you think those NYC movie & TV tours around the city do so well – People LOVE seeing where movies/TV shows were shot, and what it looks like now, and how they can contextualize it in real life.
I don’t think you should give up on the book!
I know I’m a little late adding my comment to this post but…
Have you thought about setting up a e-book?
If you are clever about your design and make all of your pages in something like Photoshop (a bit of extra work to get it set up but it makes it a lot easier in the long run!) you can always sell hard copies if the customer would like to pay the print on demand price.. or you could sell them a digital copy (think pdf file).
I make all of my photobooks in this manor and just upload the completed pages for printing as it allows full manipulation from start to finish.
I know Geograph.org here in the UK has set up a Zazzle account so people can buy merchandise as and when they like with minimum set up.
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This person is clueless. Don’t do business with 20th century dinosaurs. Plenty of people will buy a physical version of something they can get for free online.
I had a blog that, at least according to alexa.com, didn’t have nearly the reach of yours and I had a book published with relative ease by a major publishing house. Granted, it was political in nature and the timing was right… but still. There’s a chance that you just might not be talking to the right people.
The whole damn site is built around telling a story with pictures, and to do anything other than that just wouldn’t be right. I didn’t want to write a text-heavy travel guide or a history book.
Expanding the NY You’ve Changed into a glossy color photo book would be something I’d buy. If you did other movies that was exclusive to the book that would be something you’d be bringing to the table that would be worth it.
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The first concept would simply be an extension of the website, focusing exclusively on New York. The second would be to open it up to a national, or even international level.
Well, have you smoked crack? Been a prostitute? Homeless? Had any kind of addictions to overcome? Disease? That’s what makes a memoir work. That’s what
Don’t get me wrong: I get it. TV shows cost money, advertisers want ratings, and it’s safer to go with the tried-and-true nutcase reality television model than try something new.
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